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MMSA Milestones / Graham - 1800
« Last post by David M. Katz on March 14, 2026, 05:25:41 pm »Congratulations to Graham as his 1800th story has posted at MMSA! Yes, 1800.
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Free Discussion / Re: Footballer banned for homophobic slur
« Last post by Plagosus on March 10, 2026, 12:33:18 pm »It was not that the phrase "gay boy" was said, it was clearly the derogatory tone it was said in that made the referree take notice, nothing else in my mind.
As I said above, I think we can safely say that the first definition (cheerful and carefree) was not in the footballer's mind.
"You're a cheat" is derogatory but not homophobic.
The question is in what circumstances can "You're a gay boy", which is not intrinsically derogatory or homophobic, be considered either.
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Free Discussion / Re: Footballer banned for homophobic slur
« Last post by PJ Franklin on March 10, 2026, 06:43:53 am »I thought gay was the proper way to address someone who is homosexual. Evidently it is not.
It is the proper way. I don't understand where in the thread it is said that it is not. Oh well!
... but more than just that. It was not that the phrase "gay boy" was said, it was clearly the derogatory tone it was said in that made the referree take notice, nothing else in my mind.It's all very silly, like the kerfluffle over Timothee Chalamet's comments about opera and ballet this weekend.
So, here are his comments: In a conversation with Matthew McConaughey, Chalamet said, "I don't want to be working in ballet, or opera, or things where it's like, 'Hey, keep this thing alive, even though like no one cares about this anymore.' All respect to all the ballet and opera people out there". There are many other ways dear Timothee could have said that he chooses not to engage in themes that involve ballet or opera. Personally I don't care about opera either, but I love ballet. I can easily imagine that in upcoming awards shows that writers are going to capitalize on his comments in some sort of sketch comedy in involving him as a way to apologize. Maybe he sings opera while a ballet troop around him are prancing about.
PJ
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Free Discussion / Re: Footballer banned for homophobic slur
« Last post by afinch on March 09, 2026, 06:40:24 pm »I think the world has truly gone insane. If anybody calls someone else a m_therf__ker, especially if that person happens to be Eddie Murphy, that is a compliment. The use of the N word in rap songs is constant and AOK, but people who are hysterical about "gay boy" also want to have To Kill a Mockingbird and Huckleberry Finn rewritten to suit their current tender sensibilities.
Sondheim wrote a song in 1971 called "You Could Drive a Person Crazy"--it had a lyric, sung by three women who are furious that the protagonist won't commit to them, which went:
"I could understand a person
If it's not a person's bag
I could understand a person
If a person was a fag..."
Subsequently changed to a drag. Then to "If he's set to go away...if he actually was gay." And then with a female Bobbie, because diversity...if "she's set to go away." Then "If she said to go away..." which makes no sense at all to the context of the song. It's all very silly, like the kerfluffle over Timothee Chalamet's comments about opera and ballet this weekend. I disagree with him, but with the world burning around us, it is hardly a subject I think should take up much of any of our bandwidth, including a friend who is a performance manager at the Metropolitan Opera.
Sondheim wrote a song in 1971 called "You Could Drive a Person Crazy"--it had a lyric, sung by three women who are furious that the protagonist won't commit to them, which went:
"I could understand a person
If it's not a person's bag
I could understand a person
If a person was a fag..."
Subsequently changed to a drag. Then to "If he's set to go away...if he actually was gay." And then with a female Bobbie, because diversity...if "she's set to go away." Then "If she said to go away..." which makes no sense at all to the context of the song. It's all very silly, like the kerfluffle over Timothee Chalamet's comments about opera and ballet this weekend. I disagree with him, but with the world burning around us, it is hardly a subject I think should take up much of any of our bandwidth, including a friend who is a performance manager at the Metropolitan Opera.
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Story Discussion / Queued - In School Suspension Series by Bobby Watson
« Last post by jakkedk84 on March 08, 2026, 09:15:29 am »Queued - In School Suspension - Wednesday
https://malespank.net/viewStory.php?id=30356
Queued - In School Suspension - Thursday
https://malespank.net/viewStory.php?id=30362
These two excellent stories from 2013 by the late Bobby Watson tell the story of Jake Royer and two cohorts of In-School Suspension students Jake is being punished alongside.
These stories feature excellent, vivid, descriptions of Jake’s feelings before and after his punishment, and feature excellent dialogue and a cliff-hanger toward the end of the “Thursday” story.
Highly recommend these. They are a great read. I ran across them again earlier this week in the archive looking for something else.
https://malespank.net/viewStory.php?id=30356
Queued - In School Suspension - Thursday
https://malespank.net/viewStory.php?id=30362
These two excellent stories from 2013 by the late Bobby Watson tell the story of Jake Royer and two cohorts of In-School Suspension students Jake is being punished alongside.
These stories feature excellent, vivid, descriptions of Jake’s feelings before and after his punishment, and feature excellent dialogue and a cliff-hanger toward the end of the “Thursday” story.
Highly recommend these. They are a great read. I ran across them again earlier this week in the archive looking for something else.
16
Free Discussion / Re: Footballer banned for homophobic slur
« Last post by Zyngaru on March 07, 2026, 02:10:50 pm »I love these thought-provoking debates. The only person who would know for certain if the footballer's phrase was actually a slur or not would be the footballer, because it has to do with intent, not necessarily the words said.
I thought gay was the proper way to address someone who is homosexual. Evidently it is not.
Now here in America if the player of whatever sport were to be Black. My term instead of African-American. I hate hyphenated nationality labels. Either you are African or you are America. Make a choice. BUT if the player had been Black and you said "BOY", especially here in the southern United States you would probably have found yourself in a fight. Calling a Black person "Boy" is considered racist. Yet calling a white person Cracker is not racist? HMMMMM.
Everyone here knows I am Asexual, so I have to base my comments on what I see from the outside looking in.
I do know that within groups there is a lot of liberty taken with how people within their group address each other, without offense taken. Where if someone from outside that group said exactly the same thing in the same tone and everything, it would be offensive and could lead to fisticuffs.
So, in my opinion, unless it was obvious that this footballer was speaking with the obvious intention to using a slur, then I would take it is a no-nothing and move on.
I thought gay was the proper way to address someone who is homosexual. Evidently it is not.
Now here in America if the player of whatever sport were to be Black. My term instead of African-American. I hate hyphenated nationality labels. Either you are African or you are America. Make a choice. BUT if the player had been Black and you said "BOY", especially here in the southern United States you would probably have found yourself in a fight. Calling a Black person "Boy" is considered racist. Yet calling a white person Cracker is not racist? HMMMMM.
Everyone here knows I am Asexual, so I have to base my comments on what I see from the outside looking in.
I do know that within groups there is a lot of liberty taken with how people within their group address each other, without offense taken. Where if someone from outside that group said exactly the same thing in the same tone and everything, it would be offensive and could lead to fisticuffs.
So, in my opinion, unless it was obvious that this footballer was speaking with the obvious intention to using a slur, then I would take it is a no-nothing and move on.
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Free Discussion / Re: Footballer banned for homophobic slur
« Last post by Plagosus on March 07, 2026, 12:42:28 pm »If you Google "homophobic slur" the AI Overview comes up with the following: "A homophobic slur is a derogatory, insulting word or phrase used to degrade, marginalize, or express hatred toward individuals based on their real or perceived sexual orientation, typically targeting gay, lesbian, or bisexual people."
If we use that definition we can ask two questions:
· Is "gay boy" a derogatory, insulting word or phrase?
· Did the footballer use the phrase to degrade, marginalize, or express hatred towards to gay people?
There are three meanings of "gay" we can consider:
· Cheerful and carefree. (Positive)
· Homosexual. (Neutral)
· A slang word meaning something like "definitely not cool". (Negative)
I think we can safely say that the first definition was not in the footballer's mind.
As to the second, possibly. What reason would the footballer have had though to literally suggest in the middle of a football match that another footballer was gay? It is of course not quite that simple. The footballer may entertain the idea that being is on a par with being a cheat, liar or fraud. If you say someone is a cheat, liar or fraud that is a slur. Asserting someone is gay ought not to be a slur if you consider there is nothing wrong with being gay, but what if you consider calling some is gay to be an insult? These days any sensible famous straight person called gay will shrug it off asserting s/he does not have a problem with being called gay. If they sued for libel they would be taken to task by the gay community.
As to the third, see here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#Generalized_pejorative_use which indicates a lack of agreement on how the pejorative use should be regarded.
Only those who know the footballer will have any idea what his intention was. The fact that those imposing the penalty considered he did not wish to be intentionally homophobic suggests they considered the third definition came into play. I do though have a bit of a problem with the concept of "unintentional homophobia". It strikes me as approaching a contradiction in terms like "unintentional violence". In any event, they seem to have accepted that there was no intention to degrade, marginalize, or express hatred towards gay people, which, if the definition quoted above is accepted, means there was no homophobic slur.
If we use that definition we can ask two questions:
· Is "gay boy" a derogatory, insulting word or phrase?
· Did the footballer use the phrase to degrade, marginalize, or express hatred towards to gay people?
There are three meanings of "gay" we can consider:
· Cheerful and carefree. (Positive)
· Homosexual. (Neutral)
· A slang word meaning something like "definitely not cool". (Negative)
I think we can safely say that the first definition was not in the footballer's mind.
As to the second, possibly. What reason would the footballer have had though to literally suggest in the middle of a football match that another footballer was gay? It is of course not quite that simple. The footballer may entertain the idea that being is on a par with being a cheat, liar or fraud. If you say someone is a cheat, liar or fraud that is a slur. Asserting someone is gay ought not to be a slur if you consider there is nothing wrong with being gay, but what if you consider calling some is gay to be an insult? These days any sensible famous straight person called gay will shrug it off asserting s/he does not have a problem with being called gay. If they sued for libel they would be taken to task by the gay community.
As to the third, see here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#Generalized_pejorative_use which indicates a lack of agreement on how the pejorative use should be regarded.
Only those who know the footballer will have any idea what his intention was. The fact that those imposing the penalty considered he did not wish to be intentionally homophobic suggests they considered the third definition came into play. I do though have a bit of a problem with the concept of "unintentional homophobia". It strikes me as approaching a contradiction in terms like "unintentional violence". In any event, they seem to have accepted that there was no intention to degrade, marginalize, or express hatred towards gay people, which, if the definition quoted above is accepted, means there was no homophobic slur.
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MMSA Milestones / Jerome - 700
« Last post by David M. Katz on March 04, 2026, 07:52:41 pm »Congrats to French author Jerome on achieving the 700 story milestone. Jerome's accomplishment means we now have 8 authors with 700 or more stories.
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Free Discussion / Re: Footballer banned for homophobic slur
« Last post by PJ Franklin on March 04, 2026, 03:47:00 pm »The match referree's judgement was that Fletcher's "gay boy" was both intentional and a slur. And I agree with that. Mr. Fletcher was forced by his
employer, Manchester foorball club to issue an apology to the press, the content of which to me is not at all credible, but it will have to suffice. The suspension
and fine are nothing compared to the vast amount of money Manchester pays him to kick footballs, not slur other players on the pitch. So, then there's the problem
of why Manchester, or for that matter, any professional sports club on any continent (or most anyway) care at all. And that boils down to public relations. I doubt
Mr. Fletcher has learned anything except maybe that pissing off one's source of enourmous income is probably not in his best interests. I am equally as sure that
his slurring is not going to stop privately if not in public. Am I cynical about this issue, oh yes, I am.
PJ
employer, Manchester foorball club to issue an apology to the press, the content of which to me is not at all credible, but it will have to suffice. The suspension
and fine are nothing compared to the vast amount of money Manchester pays him to kick footballs, not slur other players on the pitch. So, then there's the problem
of why Manchester, or for that matter, any professional sports club on any continent (or most anyway) care at all. And that boils down to public relations. I doubt
Mr. Fletcher has learned anything except maybe that pissing off one's source of enourmous income is probably not in his best interests. I am equally as sure that
his slurring is not going to stop privately if not in public. Am I cynical about this issue, oh yes, I am.
PJ
20
Free Discussion / Footballer banned for homophobic slur
« Last post by Plagosus on March 04, 2026, 11:50:53 am »See here for full details: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2026/mar/04/manchester-united-jack-fletcher-given-six-match-ban-for-homophobic-slur
As I gay man I am somewhat conflicted by this.
The headline says: “Manchester United’s Jack Fletcher given six-match ban for homophobic slur.” Later on we read: “Fletcher admitted the charge, with both the opponent and the FA regulatory commission accepting he did not wish to be intentionally homophobic.”
Several questions arise:
Is it possible to be unintentionally homophobic?
The words uttered were “gay boy”. While Jack was clearly not offering a compliment, the words are not intrinsically homophobic. Can context make them homophobic?
If the society you live in accepts that it is fine to be gay can asserting that someone is gay ever be a slur?
I am of course happy for the footballing authorities to take affirmative action against homophobia, but I cannot help feeling that the lengthy ban has been given not only to send a message to footballers but also to wave a flag indicating that something is being done to tackle homophobia.
As I gay man I am somewhat conflicted by this.
The headline says: “Manchester United’s Jack Fletcher given six-match ban for homophobic slur.” Later on we read: “Fletcher admitted the charge, with both the opponent and the FA regulatory commission accepting he did not wish to be intentionally homophobic.”
Several questions arise:
Is it possible to be unintentionally homophobic?
The words uttered were “gay boy”. While Jack was clearly not offering a compliment, the words are not intrinsically homophobic. Can context make them homophobic?
If the society you live in accepts that it is fine to be gay can asserting that someone is gay ever be a slur?
I am of course happy for the footballing authorities to take affirmative action against homophobia, but I cannot help feeling that the lengthy ban has been given not only to send a message to footballers but also to wave a flag indicating that something is being done to tackle homophobia.