Jack's House

...if only because we speak almost the same language.

There is a well-known saying, variously attributed to G. B. Shaw, Oscar Wilde, Mark Twain and Winston Churchill, that The USA and the UK are two states separated by a common language. Written American English and written British English are essentially the same language as are the associated spoken standards. Whatever regional varieties there may be, on the whole films and TV programmes whether made in the UK or the USA are understood on both sides of the Atlantic.

The well-known saying does rather suggest the main difference between Americans and Brits is language. I am inclined to think it is in fact what they have most in common. Because we speak the same language there is a widespread belief we have much in common, when that is not the case. There is a tendency for the British, or at least the English, not to think of the English speaking non-British (though not the Irish) as foreigners when that is exactly what they are. I will not get into discussing differences as that can lead to stereotyping, but I do assert that Americans are as different from the British as the French or any other nationality.

More generally, I think it is a mistake to align language with any one or more of nationality, race, ethnicity or religion.

If you Google "homophobic slur" the AI Overview comes up with the following: "A homophobic slur is a derogatory, insulting word or phrase used to degrade, marginalize, or express hatred toward individuals based on their real or perceived sexual orientation, typically targeting gay, lesbian, or bisexual people."

If we use that definition we can ask two questions:

· Is "gay boy" a derogatory, insulting word or phrase?
· Did the footballer use the phrase to degrade, marginalize, or express hatred towards to gay people?

​There are three meanings of "gay" we can consider:

​· Cheerful and carefree. (Positive)
· Homosexual. (Neutral)
​· A slang word meaning something like "definitely not cool". (Negative)

​I think we can safely say that the first definition was not in the footballer's mind.

As to the second, possibly. What reason would the footballer have had though to literally suggest in the middle of a football match that another footballer was gay? It is of course not quite that simple. The footballer may entertain the idea that being is on a par with being a cheat, liar or fraud. If you say someone is a cheat, liar or fraud that is a slur. Asserting someone is gay ought not to be a slur if you consider there is nothing wrong with being gay, but what if you consider calling some is gay to be an insult? These days any sensible famous straight person called gay will shrug it off asserting s/he does not have a problem with being called gay. If they sued for libel they would be taken to task by the gay community.

As to the third, see here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#Generalized_pejorative_use which indicates a lack of agreement on how the pejorative use should be regarded.

Only those who know the footballer will have any idea what his intention was. The fact that those imposing the penalty considered he did not wish to be intentionally homophobic suggests they considered the third definition came into play. I do though have a bit of a problem with the concept of "unintentional homophobia". It strikes me as approaching a contradiction in terms like "unintentional violence". In any event, they seem to have accepted that there was no intention to degrade, marginalize, or express hatred towards gay people, which, if the definition quoted above is accepted, means there was no homophobic slur.

Thank you for your observations, PJ.

I have in the past been known to wonder aloud why a particular story gained votes quickly. An author's opinions of his stories often do not match those of the readers. I do not rank my stories though I am perfectly well aware that some are slighter than others. The reason I brought this story up is though because it seems to me to be an extreme case, compared to Blackmail, where I can understand the response. I say to myself that surely I have written other stories which are on a par with A Proper Caning.

I think that perhaps the problem is that a part of me is both surprised by what I produce and what people make of it.

I've posted a message on King's Dungeons.

I am pleased to hear that Flag is working to save the content of the old forum and that obviously explains the delay. It would though be nice to hear how he sees the issue progressing and, if the end is not in sight, for him to give his blessing to use the temporary forum I referred to above. Apart from anything else, if we start to gather as many people as possible together now they can all be alerted at once as soon as the new forum is up and running.

Quote from: Plagosus on January 13, 2026, 10:18:33 am

There does though have to be a limit. We had a forum where, over some 20 years, a community was built of those with an interest in common who enjoyed participating. All the regulars must be missing it, some more than others, perhaps even feeling that they have been deprived of a safe haven. At what point should we say that we cannot wait any longer to get together again? Will this thread still be relevant at Easter?

What if we temporarily added an MMSA-related section here with similar topics to discuss stories and posting questions?  DMK obviously would know, and we could inform Johnno and PJ, so there would be official input.

Sounds good to me.

An alternative site would not entice me because it would not have a direct connection with Mmsa and its readers and authors. The connection was of the essence of the lapsed forum.

The point about any alternative site is though that it would be about MMSA, just not "official".