Post reply

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.
Name:
Email:
Subject:
Message icon:
Verification:

shortcuts: hit alt+s to submit/post or alt+p to preview


Topic Summary

Posted by: Jack
« on: September 07, 2019, 09:11:47 am »

Quote from: Surfer on September 06, 2019, 10:50:25 pm
He's come a long ways. And to keep himself out of trouble since May is a great accomplishment. So likely no more otk for Liam, but he may still have to bend over and take it. Will the paddlings be done bare or on boxers?

In most cases, when I give the boys a choice, it's usually something like 'three days without car keys, three swats on the boxers, or two bare'.  Usually they go with bare, because most agree that while boxers cut the string, it's not enough to make up for the extra thud.

Quote from: Zyngaru on September 06, 2019, 11:19:48 pm
I needed an evil grin emoji for Jack's post. 

Yeah, I miss that one.
Posted by: Zyngaru
« on: September 06, 2019, 11:19:48 pm »

Quote from: Jack on September 06, 2019, 06:07:55 pm
While I'll miss the chance to take him over my lap again (he's fun to spank - not filled out too much yet, so he still fits, and he doesn't quit manage to 'tough it out' when I use the small Lexan)., I really do hope he makes it.

I needed an evil grin emoji for Jack's post. 
Posted by: Surfer
« on: September 06, 2019, 10:50:25 pm »

He's come a long ways. And to keep himself out of trouble since May is a great accomplishment. So likely no more otk for Liam, but he may still have to bend over and take it. Will the paddlings be done bare or on boxers?
Posted by: Jack
« on: September 06, 2019, 06:07:55 pm »

Liam's name came up in chat this evening, and I remembered it's been more than six months sense his birthday.  However, our agreement was that he has to stay out of trouble for six months before spanking is taken off the table.  Paddling won't be taken off the table, but it will probably only be offered as a choice at that point.  The last time Liam got in trouble was in May, which resulted in three swats bare.  You can find that story at https://jackshouse.createaforum.com/botd/botd-2019512-liam's-problem/

I'm going with six calendar months, rather than trying to count the days, which means  Liam needs to make it until 11 November for that to kick in.  He's actually been doing really well for a while.  While I'll miss the chance to take him over my lap again (he's fun to spank - not filled out too much yet, so he still fits, and he doesn't quit manage to 'tough it out' when I use the small Lexan)., I really do hope he makes it.

Posted by: Jack
« on: February 28, 2019, 03:34:04 pm »

Quote from: David M. Katz on February 28, 2019, 02:50:53 pm
It is hard to believe he is already 18.

He was already 15 when he moved in, and that's been nearly 2.5 years.  On the other hand, it seems like he's been here a lot longer in some ways, but it seems like a lot less in others.
Posted by: David M. Katz
« on: February 28, 2019, 02:50:53 pm »

It is hard to believe he is already 18.
Posted by: Jack
« on: February 28, 2019, 01:09:28 pm »

Quote from: Zyngaru on February 28, 2019, 08:51:44 am
Liam sounds really special.  At first I was confused about not wanting to be spanked and yet okay with being paddled.  I always considered them the same thing, just done differently.  But I think I understand now how Liam and you are defining them.  A spanking is bare over the lap like you would a small child.  Paddling is more like something you get at school.  Bend over and take some swats?

Yes, the way I use the terms (thus what my kids are mostly familiar with) is that a spanking is more about the position; i.e. - over the knee.  Almost all corporal correction, except occasionally for some of the older kids, is done bare.  Paddling is the term I use in regards to school style punishment - though it is done usually bare (maybe on boxers), rather than on pants.

Quote from: Zyngaru on February 28, 2019, 08:51:44 am
Liam seems to have matured greatly.  It sounds as though you and Liam had a productive adult to young adult conversation.  Liam shows a lot of progress.

A lot of the trouble Liam was having for a while was two-fold. 

Let's start by remembering the 'honeymoon period', when someone is in a new situation, and is on their best behavior.  When Liam was sure he and his little brothers were cared for and had a home, he started slipping into more normal behavior.  I think (his therapist agrees with me... or maybe his therapist suggested it, now that I think about it) that Liam had been a bit retarded after his (step-/adopted) father passed away when he was 12-ish; meaning he was already have a bit of trouble maturing in a normal way.  What really made things worse for Liam and I is that he had never known his own father, and had a very strong, loving relationship with his step-father.  While he was apparently happy and secure here, and sure I was going to care for his little brothers, there was also some subconscious problems coming up because he felt or was afraid that I was taking his first adopted father's place in his life.  Once he and his therapist were able to come to terms with that problem, he was able to start making a lot of advanced.  While he does still have some trouble, I have little doubt that he'll be fine before he's ready to leave for college.
Posted by: Zyngaru
« on: February 28, 2019, 08:51:44 am »

Liam sounds really special.  At first I was confused about not wanting to be spanked and yet okay with being paddled.  I always considered them the same thing, just done differently.  But I think I understand now how Liam and you are defining them.  A spanking is bare over the lap like you would a small child.  Paddling is more like something you get at school.  Bend over and take some swats?


If that is how it is, then I can understand why Liam would want to discontinue the Spankings because at his age, it would be very embarrassing to have to submit oneself like that.  At the same time, I am encouraged by how he understands that that type of spanking worked for him and is willing to give it a test period without terminating it right off.


Liam seems to have matured greatly.  It sounds as though you and Liam had a productive adult to young adult conversation.  Liam shows a lot of progress.


I am happy for him.  I hope he continues to grow and he can make it through the 6 month trial period without having to go over your knee.
Posted by: kalico
« on: February 28, 2019, 12:48:46 am »

I’m happy you two were able to come to an agreement and he understands what he wants....
Good luck to him on proving himself



Hugs kal
Posted by: Jack
« on: February 27, 2019, 09:56:36 pm »

Quote from: db105 on February 27, 2019, 05:52:05 pm
Nice that Liam is doing well and that you could have a reasonable and mature conversation.

Honestly, the fact that we were able to have a reasonable and mature conversation makes me doubt we need to have spanking on the table anymore (as opposed to an occasional swat or three to make it clear I'm unhappy with his behavior).  On the other hand, I like the fact that he admits he's had some troubles in the last year, and that he wants to make a real effort to prove that he doesn't need spanking as a corrective measure anymore.
Posted by: db105
« on: February 27, 2019, 05:52:05 pm »

Nice that Liam is doing well and that you could have a reasonable and mature conversation.
Posted by: Jack
« on: February 27, 2019, 04:56:06 pm »

A couple of weeks ago, I described a bit of what's been going on with Liam, as he approaches his 18th birthday (this Friday).  You can find the original post here https://jackshouse.createaforum.com/botd/botd-2019216-fostering-a-jack-production/  He and I have had a couple of talks since then, and I thought I'd update the situation.

Let me start by saying that I'm one hundred percent sure this went better than it would have six or eight months ago. 

Liam has been in therapy for over six months now.  While that's neither a miracle cure nor a cure all, I think he's made a lot of progress.  Most importantly, he's willing to admit that he's screwed up some things, and that the problems he was having kept him from making progress where it was needed.

At one point, I explained the things I was adamant about (like curfews, except for specific exceptions, which I'm usually willing to grant... with notice ahead of time), but I also reminded him ir explained to him why I'm adamant about those thins.  He admitted that he can't imagine caring for as many kids as I do, and he also admitted that I do have a right to be a bit strict in order to handle everyone.  I ended by asking Liam a series of questions, which largely came down to what he wanted to change, why he wanted to change those things, and what he thought was best for him and the family.

As of now, he's replied, and I think we've agreed on what's going to be happening.

In 2018, Liam had three separate trips over my lap for actual spankings with the small Lexan (as best I can remember, without double checking the records).  One was when he'd been stealing wifi from the Dugans to watch ****, one was after repeated curfew trouble, and one was for spanking Connor and Curtis after he'd been told not to.  All three times, he broke down bawling like a little kid, and he was extremely embarrassed as well.  That was one of the things he really wanted taken off the table.  However, he also has to admit that he earned all of them, and that they did make him change his behavior (even though he was pretty mad at me about the curfew issue for a while).

Liam's last spanking was back in September, though he did get a couple of swats back in December (not even sure I remembered to share that one).  I asked him if he wanted to take spanking off the table right away, or if he thought we should use six months for him to show he's matured, and from what date.  He went away to consider it, then came back last night.  He wants to prove that he's matured and made some real improvements, so he's agreed we should go with six months, but he wants to on his birthday; meaning that, if he stays out of major trouble, actual spanking will be off the table for him on 1 September.

What will not be coming off the table is paddling, though I'll continue to offer him the basic choice of swats or restrictions most of the time.  He admits that he likes having the choice, but that he prefers paddling - as hard as it is, at least it's over quickly.

Other than that, he couldn't really think of any rules he wants to change.  He would like to not have curfews, but he understands why I insist on them.  Honestly, he and his friends having been going to earlier movies and stuff, so they have time to do everything they want afterwards and still get home on time. 

Overall, I think things are going really well and that he has made a lot of improvements over the past year, and it seems like things are going really smoothly for now.

Posted by: Jack
« on: September 09, 2018, 07:18:00 am »

Just wanted to update on how things are going.

I think that Liam was bothered on some subconscious level by the idea that he was accepting me as his dad.  Now that it's come into the open, he seems a lot more.... relaxed? just in general.  Right now, he seems to be making a real effort to follow the rules and stay out of trouble, but he's doing it without it seeming to make him unhappy.

Liam and a couple of his friends had gone to see Peppermint on Friday night, and he decided to stay home last night.  We had a very rainy day yesterday, and it was cooler than it's been being, and he just didn't feel lie going out, and he ended up going to bed a bit early. 

I was tucking him in, and we ended up sitting and talking for a while.  I pointed out to him that he's going to be 18 in barely over a month.

Usually I make it pretty clear that, if the boys want to stay here after their 18th birthday, they have to understand that they're still under the same rules.  I've never threatened to throw anyone out on the street, but in some cases - like Mickey - I have offered to set them up in a small apartment if living her under those conditions was too chafing.  I've not had anyone take me up on that.  Liam was no exception.  Not only that, but Liam apparently knows that some of the college kids got paddled at the start of summer, and it seems like he expects to be treated the same way.

There's always some risk in amateur psychoanalysis, but I've dealt with enough therapist and known/raised enough boys to feel like I have some insight.  I think the simple truth is that Liam is waking up to the fact that he's in a safe, loving home.  He had to put his own childhood on hold for a while to make sure his little brothers were safe and care for, and, now that he's being able to relax a bit, he doesn't seem in a rush to finish growing up.
Posted by: David M. Katz
« on: August 19, 2018, 04:08:26 am »

I think it is important that Liam be able to deal with his feelings.
Posted by: Zyngaru
« on: August 17, 2018, 08:56:39 am »

Quote from: Jack on August 17, 2018, 04:19:52 am

The behavioral therapy he's been attending is helping him adjust a few areas where he'd been having problems.  Apparently he was in the middle of sharing a story about me teasing him with these really horrible shorts we'd seen while shopping for him, when he suddenly broke down.  He was upset enough that I ended up having to go get him so he could come home early.

* - yes, I still tuck Liam in.  Despite his age, he needs more than 8 hours sleep, so he and I have agreed on a pretty strict 10pm bedtime for him, which makes it easier to say good night and talk for a few minutes before turning off his light.  Zeke doesn't need quite as much sleep, but he's more pliable than Liam, so I put the two of them to bed at the same time, giving me a few minutes alone with each of them every day.

Breakthroughs are awesome.  It is these times you know that therapy can work.  It is these times that you know your care for the boys in your care is worth it.  Being a teen is rough in normal situations, but when you carry baggage from your past, it is more treacherous of a mine field. Discovering the relationship you have with your new dad is real and it affects you emotionally deep inside both your heart and your brain, is a breakthrough of enormous consequence.

I love it that you still tuck the older boys in bed.  I love how they still enjoy being tucked into bed.  I love how they don't balk at being boys in front of you, instead of being little men in those close intimate times.  I love how you make personal time with each boy, even when your time is spread thin.  A few minutes at bedtime to talk is worth more than gold in your relationship with them.  It shows each boy they mean something to you.

Reading this post was gold to me.  It is all about the emotions of the relationship with me.  Other posts I like because they are the facts of life.  But this one, revealed the emotional side of life, and to me, it means so much more.  It is like that moment when a boy stops doing whatever they are doing, and all of a sudden runs up to you and hugs you for no other reason than they decided to do it.

When I was still driving a tour bus, I had a youth choir for a week long trip.  We were at a city park in Orlando Florida, and the kids were singing in amphitheater.  When they finished I went to the bus to open it up top and bottom so they could change out of their costumes and pack their props.  I was standing there when the kids approached.  From across the open green field of the park and freshman boy came running right at me.  When he got close, he jumped into the air, wrapped his legs around my waist and his arms around my neck and hugged me.  It was a moment.  Not often a 14 year old boy hugs his bus driver, especially in front of lots of his choirmates.  A couple years later, I asked him about it and he didn't remember doing it, yet I remember it 30 years later.  This is how this post feels to me.  It is a moment.  Liam probably won't remember it a few years from now, but I bet you remember it for a very long time.