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Posted by: Jack
« on: February 22, 2018, 12:32:38 pm »

Thank you for giving us the book list.  Several of them bring back found memories and a couple of them that I never read sound interesting.  Some of the books on the list have made it to my to be read list :)

And that makes my day.  I hope you enjoy them.  I've been reading along, and have had to re-read a few ahead of time, and I've found most of them to be as enjoyable as when I first read them.
Posted by: mahoover
« on: February 22, 2018, 06:52:43 am »

Thank you for giving us the book list.  Several of them bring back found memories and a couple of them that I never read sound interesting.  Some of the books on the list have made it to my to be read list :)
Posted by: Jack
« on: February 22, 2018, 05:04:34 am »


And If I find myself with extra time

I thought you weren't dealing with fantasy.   ;D   :P   :P

Cute, but in seriousness - the boys surprised me with how they handled the Paulsen novels, so it could happen.
Posted by: David M. Katz
« on: February 21, 2018, 06:59:13 pm »


And If I find myself with extra time

I thought you weren't dealing with fantasy.   ;D   :P   :P 
Posted by: Jack
« on: February 21, 2018, 03:55:09 pm »

I have taught Heinlein's juvenalia previously, and have had classes that focused on Sci-fi and fantasy, which is why I'm avoiding it this time.

While I have to admit that I did like even Heinlein's later novels (though it read like he'd been given a maximum page count, and suddenly realized he only had 20 pages to wrap everything up), but I will agree that his juvenalia are among his best 

And If I find myself with extra time, I might go ahead and add a few sci-fi and fantasy novels (Space Cadet, Ender's Game, Pawn of Prophecy).
Posted by: jackson
« on: February 21, 2018, 03:51:05 pm »

With maybe two or three exceptions they are his best work and hold up very well. This was before Heinlein became all but unreadable in later years.
Posted by: db105
« on: February 21, 2018, 03:00:19 pm »

Will any of Robert Heinlein's juveniles be on your list?
Those are some of his best novels.

He's not including any science fiction (or fantasy) in this one. But yes, Heinlein's juveniles are still very enjoyable.
Posted by: jackson
« on: February 21, 2018, 02:14:39 pm »

Will any of Robert Heinlein's juveniles be on your list?
Those are some of his best novels.
Posted by: Jack
« on: February 21, 2018, 11:30:02 am »

Very interesting info about the Hardy Boys. Enid Blyton's books have also been modernized, but certainly not to that extent. I'm curious about it because my instinct is that a product written under those conditions (owned by a company and ghostwritten by several authors for hire) is usually a disposable product that doesn't age well, but I might be wrong. Did you read any of those as a boy?

I read all of them that had been published up to that time as a boy, and I loved them.  I have also gone back and read the Applewood versions, and I enjoyed them, but not as much.  I have read the modern novels to some of my kids - some were interested, others weren't, and some of my kids have read the facsimile editions.

When thinking about the Hardy boy novels, remember two things.  About the first 36 (I say without double checking) were outlined by the creator of the series, and most of them were all written by the same author.  I think that's why most of them are of decent quality.
Posted by: db105
« on: February 21, 2018, 10:59:08 am »

With Robinson Crusoe, you just notice stylistic choices from the 18th century that can be difficult for today's readers, particularly inexperienced readers. Large blocks of text and things like that. This was published a century before Walter Scott. More than a century before Dumas and Verne... Yes, take a look and see what you think.

Very interesting info about the Hardy Boys. Enid Blyton's books have also been modernized, but certainly not to that extent. I'm curious about it because my instinct is that a product written under those conditions (owned by a company and ghostwritten by several authors for hire) is usually a disposable product that doesn't age well, but I might be wrong. Did you read any of those as a boy?

I wasn't aware that some people considered The Valley of Fear the best Holmes novel. My favourite is The Hound of the Baskervilles without a doubt. For a novel, because The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes, for example, is a fine collection of short stories. The only "problem" with The Hound is that Holmes is not in it for most of the story, he is busy with another case and sends Watson to report to him, but it's a great story.
Posted by: Jack
« on: February 21, 2018, 04:43:57 am »

Interesting thoughts, Daniel - thanks for the feedback, and especially for the comment on Robinson Crusoe.  I remember loving this book, but I haven't read it in a long time, so I'll give it a look before starting it in class.

In general, let me remind you that, while I am teaching a real class, and I do have things I have to cover, my mine goal is not 'literary books' but love of books.  So yeah, some of the books I'm planning to teach might not be of high quality or great learning value, but those aren't my only goals.  Remember that a lot of my boys are reluctant readers or reluctant students, so my choices do consider that, and might sometimes be easy or immature for their chronological age.

Finally, if you look back at the original post, there is a question mark after this.  In the 90s, Applewood produced a facsimile edition of the early Hardy Boy novels.  This article has some information on it you might find interesting - http://hardyboys.us/hbos.htm

As the article states, they quit printing them a while back.  You can find them on eBay, and I was able to find a couple in some used bookstores (and I have several copies in family, as well as my original original), but we can't find enough for the class.  I'm looking into the possibility of copies for everyone to read or something.  I think reading this version would give us some interesting topics of discussion (vis-avis who much society has changed over the years), but I think being stuck with the newer version - the boys might be a bit old en masse for it to hold their attention.

Having said that....

QUOTE DB105
Mad Scientist Club (Strange Sea Monster of Strawberry Lake) -> I never heard of this.  I loved this book when I was 12, and when I rediscovered it (I couldn't remember the name, but finally found it a year or two ago with the help of  Google, and the author's son bringing the books back into print).  I find them fun, and somewhat anarchic, but in a mostly positive direction.

A Separate Peace -> I want to read this one. It's well-known  There are a lot of things I love about this book, but especially it's main character.  We've all known someone like Phineas, and I doubt any of us were able to keep from loving and hating him.   This is an exploration of friendship and growing up that I think everyone should read.

Lassie Come Home -> I haven't read it.  I have only read the edited, children's storybook version lately, but I remember it being an entralling, adventure book with one of the most joyous endings ever.

Murder on the Orient Express -> a perfectly fine Agatha Christie, but in choosing one I'd go with The Murder of Roger Ackroyd, with its startling and controversial ending (almost a century after its release the British Crime Writers' Association voted it the best crime novel ever), or And Then There Were None, widely regarded as Christie's masterpiece.  I am still considering that.  I also considered And Then There Were None, but I feel the novel was a bit weaker than the movie.  The fact that Roger Akroyd introduces a new literary concept (which you can't name without spoiling the ending) is a strong point in it's favor. I honestly thought the variety of characters in Orient would hold the boys' attention better, which was what has swung me this way for now.

My Side of the Moutain -> I haven't read it, although it's well-known  Good, but not great.  A quick read, and I thought it would be a nice reflection of Hatchet.

Treasure Island -> good choice

Swiss Family Robison -> I haven't read it, although as a kid I absolutely loved the movie  I loved the novel as a kid, and read it multiple times.  I do need to check the version I selected and make sure it's as readable as I remember.

Robinson Crusoe -> not easy to read, you should be careful with this one... It's a really old novel, and it shows. The style might be difficult for the boys.

White Fang/Call of the Wild -> great choices. Like Hatchet and Brian's Winter, I chose this pair because they contrast each other so well, and I want the boys to examine that, as well as just enjoying the books.

Outsiders -> I want to read this one, also well-known This one has some great lessons for kids, but it also introduces Robert Frost, and we'll probably go there for a day or two.

Where the Red Fern Grows -> another children's classic I haven't read Loved the book, hated the ending.  Kids will be mad at me over this, I wager.

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory -> I haven't read this one, although I enjoyed the recent movie. Dahl is great and whimsical, though. I loved The Witches, for example. I don't know if this one won't be a bit too infantile for your class. Maybe not.  It's hard for me to judge, because I was a college level reader in 5th grade, which is when I read it.  It is a bit immature, but I think it's more whimsical and silly than infantile.  I'll probably schedule it after something silly.

The Once and Future King -> Good one. Are you going to read just the first part with young Arthur and Merlin as his teacher or the whole thing? The first one is more for children. I don't know how much the boys will get the tragedy with Lancelot and Guinevere. It will be interesting to see what the boys make of the rest of the book. I hope the boys will explore the rest on their own, but we are going to limit it to Sword in the Stone, mostly because the entire book is about 700 pages.  If there's enough demand, I might make time to do more.

Kim -> I'm ashamed to say I haven't read it. I'd like to.

Tarzan of the Apes -> Burroughs, huh? Interesting choice. Readable enough, but Burroughs is rather pulpy and not very literary, and for a pulp exotic adventure I'm not sure there aren't better choices. King Solomon's Mines, perhaps? Or The Lost World? Actually, I want to use this book to discuss the idea of 'white privilege' and how things were seen in the past.  The idea that a person lost as a toddler and raised by apes would be able to educate himself from books and fit into English Society as an earl is so ridiculous, and yet fits in to a world view that's just not that old.  I think it's still a fun read, but I chose it for that reason.

Holes -> brilliant book for boys. Your class will love it.

Alex Rider: Stormbreaker -> yeah, the first Alex Rider book, they should enjoy this one too. Kind of a junior James Bond-style spy. For teenage spies I prefer Robert Muchamore's CHERUB books, but Alex Rider is safer (in the sense that in CHERUB there might be something that religious or very conservative parents may object to, nothing too bad, though). You've mentioned CHERUB before, but I've not yet sought it out.  Really should.  I think Colt and Kenny have read them.

Maltese Falcon -> yeah, if you are going to read an Agatha Christie, why not complement it with the more hardboiled style that replaced the traditional British-style mystery? The film with Bogart is great, too.

Tower Treasure (Hardy Boys #1)? -> a bit surprised at this one. I haven't read it, so I'm not sure, but it's the first book in a famous boy detective series by the Stratemeyer syndicate, ghostwritten by several authors, not the best recipe for literary quality. Also, the versions available today may have been rewritten to eliminate old racial stereotypes and other non politically-correct details, and in the process the style may have been changed. I don't know how well it will hold today, but I'd be fascinated to know what the boys think of it. I should take a look at it myself, out of curiosity. I wonder if this will compare to Enid Blyton's books, which I loved as a boy.

20,000 Leagues Under the Sea -> I read this one ages ago. Not my favorite Verne for boys, although one of the best-known. With Verne, what translation you choose is important. That's why it's on the ? list.  I want to introduce them to older sci-fi, but this one also has a number of other things going for it (Indian independence for one) that are relevant today.  On the other hand, I may consider others of his works or even something by that other Wells- H.G.

Hound of the Baskervilles -> Great Sherlock Holmes novel. I'm leaning towards this one, because it's most famous, but many people Valley of Fear is the best, so I'm going to try to read that one again before deciding.

Dracula -> I'm ashamed to say i never read it. Not a great novel, but I think they'll be intersted in seeing how much the movies changed things.

Meet the Tiger - Leslie Charteris -> Curious choice. What will the boys make of this? I hadn't heard of it before now. This looks like the pulp novels about masked avengers? Or is it more like a traditional thriller?  The Saint is an incredible character - a thief and con-man who helps those in need - while helping himself.  I've not read this before, so I need to check it before I confirm it.

39 Steps -> haven't read this one, although I had heard of it. Sounds fine I haven't either, but while I was checking lists for things I might have forgotten, this one came up over and over again, so I'm going to try to make time to give it a read.

Manchurian Candidate -> haven't read this one - Same as above, and in this time of political turmoil, it might be a good choice.
Posted by: db105
« on: February 20, 2018, 06:46:48 pm »

Thanks for the list. Many books I haven't read there. Let's see (apart from the ones you already talked about):


Mad Scientist Club (Strange Sea Monster of Strawberry Lake) -> I never heard of this.

A Separate Peace -> I want to read this one. It's well-known

Lassie Come Home -> I haven't read it.

Murder on the Orient Express -> a perfectly fine Agatha Christie, but in choosing one I'd go with The Murder of Roger Ackroyd, with its startling and controversial ending (almost a century after its release the British Crime Writers' Association voted it the best crime novel ever), or And Then There Were None, widely regarded as Christie's masterpiece.

My Side of the Moutain -> I haven't read it, although it's well-known

Treasure Island -> good choice

Swiss Family Robison -> I haven't read it, although as a kid I absolutely loved the movie

Robinson Crusoe -> not easy to read, you should be careful with this one... It's a really old novel, and it shows. The style might be difficult for the boys.

White Fang/Call of the Wild -> great choices.

Outsiders -> I want to read this one, also well-known

Where the Red Fern Grows -> another children's classic I haven't read

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory -> I haven't read this one, although I enjoyed the recent movie. Dahl is great and whimsical, though. I loved The Witches, for example. I don't know if this one won't be a bit too infantile for your class. Maybe not.

The Once and Future King -> Good one. Are you going to read just the first part with young Arthur and Merlin as his teacher or the whole thing? The first one is more for children. I don't know how much the boys will get the tragedy with Lancelot and Guinevere. It will be interesting to see what the boys make of the rest of the book.

Kim -> I'm ashamed to say I haven't read it. I'd like to.

Tarzan of the Apes -> Burroughs, huh? Interesting choice. Readable enough, but Burroughs is rather pulpy and not very literary, and for a pulp exotic adventure I'm not sure there aren't better choices. King Solomon's Mines, perhaps? Or The Lost World?

Holes -> brilliant book for boys. Your class will love it.

Alex Rider: Stormbreaker -> yeah, the first Alex Rider book, they should enjoy this one too. Kind of a junior James Bond-style spy. For teenage spies I prefer Robert Muchamore's CHERUB books, but Alex Rider is safer (in the sense that in CHERUB there might be something that religious or very conservative parents may object to, nothing too bad, though).

Maltese Falcon -> yeah, if you are going to read an Agatha Christie, why not complement it with the more hardboiled style that replaced the traditional British-style mystery? The film with Bogart is great, too.

Murder on the Orient Express -> oh, we already commented this one

Tower Treasure (Hardy Boys #1)? -> a bit surprised at this one. I haven't read it, so I'm not sure, but it's the first book in a famous boy detective series by the Stratemeyer syndicate, ghostwritten by several authors, not the best recipe for literary quality. Also, the versions available today may have been rewritten to eliminate old racial stereotypes and other non politically-correct details, and in the process the style may have been changed. I don't know how well it will hold today, but I'd be fascinated to know what the boys think of it. I should take a look at it myself, out of curiosity. I wonder if this will compare to Enid Blyton's books, which I loved as a boy.

20,000 Leagues Under the Sea -> I read this one ages ago. Not my favorite Verne for boys, although one of the best-known. With Verne, what translation you choose is important.

Hound of the Baskervilles -> Great Sherlock Holmes novel.

Dracula -> I'm ashamed to say i never read it.

Meet the Tiger - Leslie Charteris -> Curious choice. What will the boys make of this? I hadn't heard of it before now. This looks like the pulp novels about masked avengers? Or is it more like a traditional thriller?

39 Steps -> haven't read this one, although I had heard of it. Sounds fine

Manchurian Candidate -> haven't read this one
Posted by: David M. Katz
« on: February 20, 2018, 05:35:54 pm »

For that matter, despite their female protagonists, I'm considering using Little House in the Big Wood

If you are looking at doing something by LIW then I would go with Farmer Boy.  It is about LIW's husband's boyhood.  It has male protagonists.  Also, if I remember, there are references to CP in Farmer Boy.
Posted by: Jack
« on: February 20, 2018, 05:22:40 pm »

As I've already said, I'm not doing science-fiction or fantasy (though I supposed you could argue a few of my choices).  I'd already been considering making an exception for The Giver or possibly Ender's Game.  I'm not familiar at all with  The Hanging Wood, though the synopsis of it sounds intriguing.  Night would definitely be a good choice, though I'll have to read it again to see if it's really something I want to use in this class.  For that matter, despite their female protagonists, I'm considering using Little House in the Big Wood and Island of the Blue Dolphin.
Posted by: David M. Katz
« on: February 20, 2018, 04:42:10 pm »

Some more for your "possible" list:

The Hanging Wood - Scott L. Sanders

Night - Elie Wiesel

Fahrenheit 451 - Ray Bradbury

Artemis Fowl - Eoin Colfer

The Giver - Lois Lowry