Post reply

Name:
Email:
Subject:
Message icon:
Verification:

shortcuts: hit alt+s to submit/post or alt+p to preview


Topic Summary

Posted by: Emlyn Morgan
« on: January 06, 2026, 12:22:23 pm »

It seems that Chinese people have difficulty pronouncing consonant clusters in the English language and also words ending in the letter 'l', presumably because they don't meet such obstacles in Mandarin, so they tend to insert a vowel sound betwixt the consonants.

When the young Chinese actor MaXinRui was filming in the Jackie Chan film Desert Storm here in Morocco, her voice coach despaired because words such as "battle" she rendered as battulur and "instantly" became inussuttanutturi.

So I was tasked to rewrite her lines using easier words. Fortunately it was an action film with not much for her to say!
Posted by: Zyngaru
« on: January 01, 2026, 08:39:45 am »

Quote from: Plagosus on December 31, 2025, 04:18:38 pm
Quote from: Emlyn Morgan on December 02, 2025, 02:14:58 pm
Young Ahmed, whom I help improve his English, is convinced it's correct to say such as firs' an' las' or eatin' an' drinkin', because that's what he hears, even on the BBC.

While young Ahmed may be copying what he hears, there is a possibility that he is not copying what is actually being said. What a person hears can be strongly influenced by the sounds of his native language. In this respect, neither Standard Arabic nor Moroccan Arabic has the nasal sound which comes at the end of "thing" while they do have the sound which comes at the end of "thin". If you say these two words noting the position of the tongue for the final consonant you will find it is a little further back for "ng" than "n". These two sounds are clearly distinguishable by native English speakers, but may sound the same to a speaker of a language which does not have any words which require the sounds to be distinguished - such as "thin" and "thing". The consonant "t" is a plosive, a sound which, though short, consists of three phases: approach, hold and release. In English, when a plosive is not followed by a vowel the release, the point where the air leaves the mouth, is often missing. So, when a "t" follows an "s" it can get a bit lost and appear to merge with the "s" giving the impression that there is only an "s".

Plag never ceases to amaze me with his knowledge of language.
Posted by: Plagosus
« on: December 31, 2025, 04:18:38 pm »

Quote from: Emlyn Morgan on December 02, 2025, 02:14:58 pm
Young Ahmed, whom I help improve his English, is convinced it's correct to say such as firs' an' las' or eatin' an' drinkin', because that's what he hears, even on the BBC.

While young Ahmed may be copying what he hears, there is a possibility that he is not copying what is actually being said. What a person hears can be strongly influenced by the sounds of his native language. In this respect, neither Standard Arabic nor Moroccan Arabic has the nasal sound which comes at the end of "thing" while they do have the sound which comes at the end of "thin". If you say these two words noting the position of the tongue for the final consonant you will find it is a little further back for "ng" than "n". These two sounds are clearly distinguishable by native English speakers, but may sound the same to a speaker of a language which does not have any words which require the sounds to be distinguished - such as "thin" and "thing". The consonant "t" is a plosive, a sound which, though short, consists of three phases: approach, hold and release. In English, when a plosive is not followed by a vowel the release, the point where the air leaves the mouth, is often missing. So, when a "t" follows an "s" it can get a bit lost and appear to merge with the "s" giving the impression that there is only an "s".
Posted by: squarecutter
« on: December 31, 2025, 12:47:04 pm »

Dropping 'T's is a bete noire for me. It is lazy and not necessary. The tv advertising voiceovers here are the worst offenders and I'm sure are having an influence
Posted by: afinch
« on: December 02, 2025, 06:39:13 pm »

Firs' and las' bothers me a whole lot less than people who don't bu-un (button) their jackets.  It's a silly affection that is also harder to pronounce, not lazier.  I don't see the point.
Posted by: Emlyn Morgan
« on: December 02, 2025, 02:14:58 pm »

I dare say I caused the confusion by forgetting that in French one doesn't pronounce the consonants at the ends of numerous words.

According to AI Overview, which seems to  have taken over from Professor Google as the font of all knowledge, the French stopped pronouncing consonants at the ends of many of their words gradually between the 1300s and 1700s. So now it's correct not to pronounce the t at the end of "quart" and "port".

A similar change is happening much more rapidly in English. Young Ahmed, whom I help improve his English, is convinced it's correct to say such as firs' an' las' or eatin' an' drinkin', because that's what he hears, even on the BBC.  I suppose he's right.  "Correct" English pronunciation has changed rather suddenly.
Posted by: Emlyn Morgan
« on: November 29, 2025, 10:33:19 am »

Another true story!

I was sitting on my balcony watching the sunset, listening to the roar of the ocean. My phone rang. It was my companion who works in the fishing port.

"Je suis a la porte."

"Ah, oui. Tu est au port. Quand tu arrive ici?"

Non. Je suis a la porte maintenant."

" Oui, tu est au port. Mais quelle heure tu fini?"

" Non, non, non! Je frappe la PORTE. Ouvri la porte!“

I say port, you say porte: let's call the whole thing off!

Posted by: Emlyn Morgan
« on: November 22, 2025, 08:47:53 pm »

Another true story:

Many years ago in Juan les Pins, I was in a restaurant where they served the "house" wine in jugs - quarter litre or half litre.

I ordered "un quart de vin rouge".

They brought me the "carte des vins!"
Posted by: David M. Katz
« on: November 22, 2025, 01:39:52 pm »

Quote from: Plagosus on November 22, 2025, 03:34:20 am
The two halves of a chicken will be equivalent. How do you know what you're getting if you order a quarter?

Typically, if one has a preference, he will specify Leg Quarter or Breast Quarter.  If no preference is given then either would be possible.

The Leg Quarter is a Drumstick and Thigh - Usually with a small amount of back meat.
The Breast Quarter is a Breast and Wing - Usually with the keel split evenly and some rib meat.
Posted by: Plagosus
« on: November 22, 2025, 03:34:20 am »

The two halves of a chicken will be equivalent. How do you know what you're getting if you order a quarter?
Posted by: Jack
« on: November 21, 2025, 05:02:13 pm »

Gotta be careful with words like that!  :D
Posted by: Emlyn Morgan
« on: November 21, 2025, 09:11:05 am »

Here's a true story:

Yesterday in a restaurant I ordered a quarter spit-roast chicken to take away:

"Un quart de poulet roti a emporter s'il-vous-plait."

After a while I was presented with a huge heavy  bag. Surely some mistake!

They thought I'd said: "QUATRE poulets roti!"