Think this is a growing up thing. Small kids defer to parents at difficult moments if they feel its a safe place to defer to. Teens naturally think there issues armore complicated and find it harder to see their parents as the safe place to go. They might talk to Boy/girlfriends or coaches/mentors especially if they don't believe the latter wont come over all parental with them. A safe place. Think parents need to understand that a bit. Question> If your boss at work thought your demeanor or performance was a bit off at work and asked if all was ok at home would you spill about the row you had with your partner or money worries etc? I sort of doubt it. I would note Jack that while you certainly disciplined the kids in your care that you did a certain amount of life coaching at the same time. Parents demanding answers all the time isn't always helpful
I should also point out that those spankings only happened once or twice in all of the ones I received. As someone pointed out, parents are people too, having their own moods and imperfections. The ones I deserved, which were almost all of them, resulted in lessons learned and the spankings themselves forgotten. "Because I said so" isn't any better a response than "I was just following orders."
I know I was spanked as a kid--the only spankings whose details I remember are ones I felt were unfair--for "attitude" or because they were in a bad mood about something else.
**** hell, man, I'm so very sorry you had to go through any of that! I can personally relate and empathize so very deeply, being raised as a 90s kid in the Bible Belt, where there was this general underlying sense that obedience was necessary, but not sufficient -- you know, because you also gotta act like you're happy about it! Grrrr....
THIS! Exactly this.
I have just finished reading all of the In... series by Ripping Yarns that are posted under Ianboy at MMSA (he helped co-write the last three). This is an excellent series and I really did enjoy it, but it has a lot of that cheerful obedience stuff, which I detest, but the author made it sound... acceptable, if not desirable.
When I was a kid, the phrase I heard was 'you don't have to like it, you just have to do it.' As a parent, there are times you accept that, but I really would prefer the kids mind because they trust me and believe I'm doing what I think is best for them, which is my job.
The thing I don't like about instant or cheerful obedience is that it makes the 'child' less of a person. At least it certainly seems that way to me.
Once a boy enters puberty even if signs of puberty haven't made an appearance yet, the moodiness and need for privacy with their own thoughts begin.
Unfortunately, parents don't realize puberty has started. They still see their son as the boy that tells them everything about everyone including themselves.
It is when the two clash into each other that a problem arises. The parent knows instinctively that there is something bothering their son and they fully expect their son to tell them what it is so they can help figure the solution out. The son feels differently or sees something in a different way, or he has instincts about a situation that isn't making total sense to him, and he wants to figure it out. He really can't talk about it with his parents because he doesn't know what it is, so he doesn't know what to talk about.
To the parent the son looks moody and aloof. To the son his parents look pushy and interfering. Since neither understands the other during this time of change, it leads to many conflicts.
We as a people deal with things through communication. If communication doesn't work for whatever reason, then conflict occurs. Most people cannot read other people using non-verbal communication. So, when no one is talking misunderstandings happen.
The son shrugs and walks away, meaning he needs some alone time. The parent sees that as rebellion and disrespect. That in turn leads to the parent puffing up and looking stern and aggressive. The son gets mad at how his parents are staring at him as if he grew a second head, and again conflict occurs.
This situation is difficult to get right in a story. Mainly because we write stories from one perspective. Thus, the reader is seeing the conflict from just one side view, which of course makes the other side look mean and horrible. I applaud writers that can get this situation balanced in their stories.
But yes, this is a real-life occurrence and sometimes we get to read a story where it feels real in the story. Usually, it comes off as either a horrible boy or a horrible parent. We have even seen this in BOTD's. Read back through the comments on either how bad a parent there was or how bad a kid it was. And the consequences that us authors say the bad one should get.
I can usually see both sides of a situation. But most people can't. But if an author is good at their craft, it is even difficult for me to see the other side, besides the side the story wants me to see.
"Thanks, dad," son answered with at least a hint of attitude. "I just want you to remember that you can tell me anything." "Will you give me some space!?!" "I"m not going to put up with that kind of disrespect. Spanking time!"
Okay, in response to the above, I have just three things to say:
I'm sorry but just, "What?
No, but seriously -- "What?!"
Heaven's sake but, "What the almighty blazing ****, Jesus H. Christ?!?!"
...you get the idea, I presume? In the case of the above snippet, my immediate reaction is incredulity and indignation, wondering to myself "In what universe and timeline, out of infinite timelines in a multiverse, does that even 0.0000001% qualify as 'disrespect'?!?!"
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Now, kids can be kind of thick to adults, because they do tend to live in the now, even when they're teenagers. However, I know I'd lose my temper if someone kept pushing like that after I'd already answered them. If you're a parent, sometimes you have to accept that "I'm fine," realy means, "I'm trying to process a situation and just don't want to talk about it right now," or maybe just "I'm a moody bastard, check back with me after puberty." <-snip-> ...a good parent should say something like "Okay, I'll leave you alone, but..."
There is a formal/clinical term for this kind of behavior by the provocateur: "Reactive Abuse" -- defined as "Reactive abuse occurs when someone who has been abused begins to defend themselves by responding to abuse with physical and/or verbal attacks," per this introductory/explanatory article: Understanding Reactive Abuse: Signs and Solutions Additionally, this YouTube video discusses the phenomenon with a specific focus on narcissistic abuse, in particular:
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Of course, parents are people as well, so it's understandable if they're having a bad day or if the kid's had a trend of misbehavior, but it still lowers my opinion of them a bit.
Clearly you are more understanding and magnanimous than I am because, to put it mildly, it lowers MY opinion of them a LOT -- by orders of magnitude, in fact! But that's admittedly due almost entirely to my own biography, psyche, and idiosyncratic personality traits; if there were a Guinness World Record for "Most Unforgiving," then I would be a shoe-in for the No. 1 position. Perhaps it's for the best, in all honestly, that others out there have bigger hearts than I...?
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but since I have and you're here, what do you think about situations like this - both in stories and how to handle them?
I would say it depends on various factors specific to the story in question: Genre (e.g. WHASS vs. wank), the characters and relationships, the desired emotional tone and reader reaction, any particular moral/ethical "lesson" or point that the author has in mind. In my case, just because I object to "attitude penalization" in real-life, does not whatsoever preclude me choosing to include it as part of a fictional spanky story -- for example to establish an element/theme of strictness, structures, and power dynamics for "hotness" purposes
I know I was spanked as a kid--the only spankings whose details I remember are ones I felt were unfair--for "attitude" or because they were in a bad mood about something else.
**** hell, man, I'm so very sorry you had to go through any of that! I can personally relate and empathize so very deeply, being raised as a 90s kid in the Bible Belt, where there was this general underlying sense that obedience was necessary, but not sufficient -- you know, because you also gotta act like you're happy about it! Grrrr....
That was not from a story, but simply a rough example of the kind of thing I was talking about.
One of them is in the second part of a story by Finn Kelly, an author I really enjoy, but who's only posted three stories.
The second is from an incredibly moving story by Skip Trace - Sam at 16, part of the Mr. Anderson looks back series and maybe my all-time favorite spanking story, though it really isn't a spanking story, but a story with spanking in it.
I agree with you. I can't imagine spanking (or being spanked when I was a kid) for an interaction like that.
I know I was spanked as a kid--the only spankings whose details I remember are ones I felt were unfair--for "attitude" or because they were in a bad mood about something else. I suppose in a spanking STORY, some "reason" needs to be provided for the rest of the story. None of the best stories by any author manufacture ones as artificial as the narrative that bothered you (and bothers me) referenced here.
i have read a couple of stories recently (one of which I loved, and the other of which might be my favorite spanking story of all time), where a father was dealing with a teenage son. In both cases, the kids were definitely acting moody (and had a problem, but the parents couldn't know that). Both scenes went something like that.
"You okay, son?"
"Yeah, Dad, I'm fine."
"Because if something's wrong, you can tell me about it."
"Thanks, dad," son answered with at least a hint of attitude.
"I just want you to remember that you can tell me anything."
"Will you give me some space!?!"
"I"m not going to put up with that kind of disrespect. Spanking time!"
Now, in each of these stories, there's some justification to the parents action (one, the kid is already in trouble for something else, and the other, they've been having problems for a while), but this is something I've seen show up in stories and real life over and over again.
Now, kids can be kind of thick to adults, because they do tend to live in the now, even when they're teenagers. However, I know I'd lose my temper if someone kept pushing like that after I'd already answered them. If you're a parent, sometimes you have to accept that "I'm fine," realy means, "I'm trying to process a situation and just don't want to talk about it right now," or maybe just "I'm a moody bastard, check back with me after puberty."
Now, to me, if you ask, and they say fine, a good parent should say something lke "Okay, I'll leave you alone, but remember that you can tell me anything, and I'm always here if you need to talk. "
Of course, parents are people as well, so it's understandable if they're having a bad day or if the kid's had a trend of misbehavior, but it still lowers my opinion of them a bit.
I guess I really don't have a question. I just needed to put my thoughts in writing, but since I have and you're here, what do you think about situations like this - both in stories and how to handle them?
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I can personally relate and empathize so very deeply, being raised as a 90s kid in the Bible Belt, where there was this general underlying sense that obedience was necessary, but not sufficient -- you know, because you also gotta act like you're happy about it! Grrrr....
...you get the idea, I presume? In the case of the above snippet, my immediate reaction is incredulity and indignation, wondering to myself "In 
