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Posted by: HumbledBareBoy
« on: August 18, 2023, 11:00:56 pm »

Sorry.  I rambled, but I felt it necessary for everyone who reads HBB's comments to KNOW that I did not say what that post implies that I said. Yes.  HBB.  I know you never meant it to sound that way.  It's just an unfortunate grouping of quotes.
Ohhh, shoot! Wow, at the time it never would have occurred to me, but now that you pointed it out, I absolutely see what you mean -- my mistake, just fixed it accordingly!
Posted by: Zyngaru
« on: August 18, 2023, 10:30:40 pm »

As I read HBB's comments I was wondering if I should comment or not.  Then I got down to where three comments were grouped together with my name at the top and only the first comment was mine and I do take exception with the last comment being put to that grouping, because it implies, I said that which I DID NOT say that or even think it.

Mr. Bottom and I differ in a lot of things we comment on, but in no way does that imply I hold any animosity or ill will towards him.  I have NEVER wished anyone be banned from any site.  Do our conversations sometimes get intense?  Yes.  Sometimes they get so intense we both stop commenting just so we don't go too far.  But I highly respect Mr. Bottom.  He is true to what he believes and states it without compromise.  I know where he stands and like that in a person.  What I can't stand is someone (Not implying this to any particular person) who is nice to you to your face and mean about you behind your back.  Two faced people rub me the wrong way.

That said, there are a few, not many, but a few people on MMSA that I don't care for, even though I don't know them personally.  I strongly doubt they even know I don't like them.  My liking or disliking anyone, means diddly, as long as I stay civil and polite.

Sorry.  I rambled, but I felt it necessary for everyone who reads HBB's comments to KNOW that I did not say what that post implies that I said.

Yes.  HBB.  I know you never meant it to sound that way.  It's just an unfortunate grouping of quotes.  To show you I still love you as a brother from another mother, I am writing you a story.  When it is done, I will email it to you.  Don't hold your breath.  I am a long way from getting it finished.  It's a tribute story from my reading one of your stories and Zynder was inspired to give me this story for you.

As for the debate about stars and shields.  I have commented on this elsewhere, but I will highlight what they mean for me here.  I like both.  Shields more than stars, but I like both.  I write for myself.  Zynder gives me a story and I write it.  I enjoy writing it because it is like watching a movie inside my head.  Zynder demands that I wrote the stories he gives me.  Zynder cares less what I do with them afterwards.  He gives the stories for me, personally.  He does not give me stories expecting other to read them.  Zynder still gives me stories.  He's never stopped.  Point in question, the above-mentioned story, that I am writing for HBB.

I posted stories online for others to enjoy.  I felt that I enjoyed them so much that maybe others would like them also.  So, with Flag's encouragement I started sharing them.  The stars showed me if people enjoyed them like I did or not.  If no-one liked them, then why share them?  I'm still going to write them, but I don't have to share them if no-one likes them.  That is what I gleaned from stars.

Shields took on an important measure for how I write the stories Zynder gives me.  Shields come from the people I highly respect.  Shields told me if what I was writing deserved to be shared.  If reviewers considered my stories crap, then they don't deserve to be shared sparing others from having to read crap.  I worked really hard trying to write better and better.  You all know I am not a grammar person, so writing a story that would receive a shield was and still is difficult for me.  Getting my first shield was an awesome day for me.  It encouraged me to strive harder to get the story grammatically correct.  Receiving my Author Shield was the best ever day in my story writing experience.  It meant I was accepted as an author.  None of that is probably what the whole stars and shields thing is supposed to represent.

Okay.  It's getting late and I have a story to work on a little bit before going to bed.  Yes.  HBB.  It's your story and I am lying here naked ready to bring life to characters I hope you'll enjoy meeting someday.
Posted by: HumbledBareBoy
« on: August 18, 2023, 08:54:54 pm »

Okay, I'm admitted "late to the game" here, but oddly enough, I do indeed feel like I can actually contribute something semi-articulate and vaguely intelligent, haha! 🤣 I will surely say a few thing of stark disagreement with previously stated sentiments, but I can promise I am saying them in all respect and compassion -- a smile on my face, warmth in my heart, and sending a "telepathic hug" in your direction...

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Stars and shields are of little value to readers. It may be a while before a story gets any sort of star rating. ... Readers do not need stars as they get to know who they want to read.

As a reader, I would honestly have to say it differs from person to person, and for example, a reader like me does like having stars and shield to consider for choosing stories, and I would miss them if they were to ever go away. Part of that, I'm sure, is largely on account me generally being a technical, analytical, quantitative, etc. kind of personality overall, and I'm really all about numbers, labels, categories, clear dividing lines, etc. So if I'm perusing the listings, granted the content icons themselves will be my first choice of information to act upon, but otherwise, my neurons just take a certain amount of comfort in having something so concrete and, I guess, "tangible" in the form of those shields and stars...

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I do not enjoy seeing my stories with nothing at all beside them. I do not enjoy seeing my stories with sad, hollow, four-pointed thingamajigs while someone else is enjoying a pair of solid six-pointers. It does feel like my nose is being rubbed in the fact that readers just aren't that into me.
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...because they are disappointed with the lack of feedback of one sort or another, I suggest they should not be concerned and just get on and write if they like writing. I said that feedback was a mixed blessing and suggested that no one would be fretting if there were no statistics. ... I do though feel for those authors who agonise. I do my best to persuade them they have no need to agonise and suggest they just concentrate on writing what they want or feel they need to write.

Here, I would instead argue that it really depends on the specific writer, plus their personal reasons and hoped-for psychological rewards for submitting stories in the first place, either to MMSA or to other archive sites. In my case, for example, it is not solely about the stories -- but to the contrary, also as much (if not more...?) about the connection and communication aspects of it! On one hand, I feel like every human being out there, although to greater vs. lesser degrees, has at least some cursory desire -- or more likely, even a need -- for the occasional "external validation" in one form or another; in my case, I know that total or near-total absence of any reader engagement, and I would soon lose my reasons or desires for writing anything. Basically, it would more or less cease to be rewarding or meaningful to me...

On the other hand, I also participate in the community for deeper personal reasons, beyond consuming "hot stories" about spanked boys! Put it this way: Nobody in my physical, everyday life -- outside the Internet, here in the real world -- knows about "HumbledBareBoy", nor that he and I are one and the same -- not even my real-life friends and acquaintances from the kink/fetish and BDSM communities... :(

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My ideal would be to do away with shields and stars and allowing authors to see the number of visitors. With that system authors would not be comparing themselves to other authors.
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I'd happily get rid of the shields. There has been too much bitterness over them for them to bring me any satisfaction.

Based upon my readings of past discussions, in all fairness, I can indeed understand where people who feel this way are coming from, especially just considering even debating the topic at all has been cause for strife and acrimony. From my point of view, having only become earnestly active just 3 years ago back in September 2020 -- I can say that both stars and shields have sincerely been a genuine source of benefit to me, psychologically and emotionally speaking! Of course, I fully realize that's just my personal, individual experience -- plus also, respect the fact that it's different for others.  Still yet, when I was that "new-ish" author still trying to build up my motivation, self-confidence, and "creative identity" within the wider body of authors -- seeing my story go live with a shield next to it undeniably was an extra ray of light and "shining beacon" for me, but even when said shield is not forthcoming for any particular story...?

Just the fact that I have gotten shields and stars in the past, it gives me hope I can do so again, in the future! But more deeply, that I do in fact have the ability to write things that readers will enjoy and to reach them on some level -- emotional, erotic, and/or anything else! 💯


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(Edited to clarify/dispel ambiguity, in light of Z's comments -- mea culpa!)

As for Mr. Flag.  I have always been and always will be one of his staunch supporters.  He encouraged me when I first started submitting stories...
=== Not-Zyngaru quotes ===
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I'm glad you have had a positive experience with Flag, Zyngaru.  <-snip->  You are fortunate that you've only met Dr. Jekyll. Numerous other people have had dealings with Mr. Hyde.
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I wouldn't mind at all if he were to ban Bottom

Before going into computers and generally persuing the STEM (i.e., "science + technology + engineering + mathematics") corner of the job market, I had previous life where I was working towards a PhD in the social science -- studying human beings themselves, in all their weirdness! And although I did leave the field professionally, there is regardless still a part of me that find such topics interesting.  Here in MMSA, for example, I'm always curious about (and fascinated by) who does or does not get along with one another, plus who people gravitate towards vs. fleeing away from...

Very much like so many other people here, I occasionally find dealing with Flag to be challenging or unpleasant, so I suppose that means have encountered a form of "Mr. Hyde"  myself...  ??? Even despite, mind you, all of my best and sincerest efforts to be warm, sweet, and agreeable, FYI! At the very same time, just because I think so much of Zyngaru, even I have to be grateful to Flag for providing Z. with that aforementioned encouragement -- plus the other times, to my recollection, that Flag's really stepped up and did good for people! Which does not, to be fair, at all negate or invalidate other people's more negative experiences -- just merely illustrates the complex web of unique, dynamics flowing relationships amongst people...

However, and obviously very much UNLIKE others here, Bottom and I have always gotten along with one another quite easily and beautifully; I gather that various members have their own histories with him, and he with them in turn, but...he's always been nothing short of wonderful to me -- as friendly and respectful as anyone could ever hope for, even! Granted, part of that could simply be attributed to my sweet and amazing personality, just being the warm, radiant "shining beacon" of infinite love and pure light that I am -- LOL! 🤣🤣🤣 But also, so many other things, I would presume: The right year, the optimal season, Mercury NOT being in retrograde, and so on and so forth...

I give Jack full credit for operating a forum where we can have frank discussions. Jack has been very generous, as he started Bransom to showcase his own material.

With THIS sentiment, I could not possibly agree more deeply or enthusiastically, than I already do! Three cheers, hip hip hooray!
Posted by: Adric
« on: May 15, 2023, 06:48:47 pm »

These discussions of how MMSA could be restructured for better effect reminded me of an old children's story, "Belling the Cat."
Posted by: Kat
« on: May 12, 2023, 10:07:35 am »

I'm glad you have had a positive experience with Flag, Zyngaru. You won't find me singing his praises, though. To me and several others here, he has been a jackhole. I acknowledge his talents and credit him for creating both the archive and forum. I just hope he doesn't decide to destroy it in a fit of pique one day.

And while he is the owner of MMSA, the writers who contribute to it have an investment in it, as well. He can, of course, do as he likes, but he is not above criticism. It does him no credit when acts like an authoritarian. If he doesn't want to act on suggestions, that is his prerogative. What concerns me is his intolerance for dissent.

You are fortunate that you've only met Dr. Jekyll. Numerous other people have had dealings with Mr. Hyde.

I give Jack full credit for operating a forum where we can have frank discussions. Jack has been very generous, as he started Bransom to showcase his own material.

Kat

Posted by: Zyngaru
« on: May 12, 2023, 09:31:04 am »

The introduction of six pointed stars has highlighted that some genres are more popular than others. Authors who keep to a less popular genre appear not to be as good as those who choose more popular genres. .

This is the point I don't get. How so? I do not write in a "popular" genre. Not to brag and, I only point it out for example, but I frequently get six pointers and, if not, filled in four pointers. I am not sure that the argument that authors who write in a popular genre only are awarded with six pointers holds true.

I agree with Dave on this one.  I'm not so sure it has to do with Genre as much as fan base.  The more you write and the longer you continue to write the larger your fan base.  Theoretically anyway.  The larger your fan base the more people who will read your stories and thus the more potential you have of them voting for stars.

Personally, I have NEVER used the star system to compare myself to other writers.  That would be stupid on my part.  I will never be as good as other writers.  I use the star system to rate myself against myself.  Am I improving, remaining the same or getting worse.

As for Mr. Flag.  I have always been and always will be one of his staunch supporters.  He encouraged me when I first started submitting stories and we all know how bad the first ones were.  Just read the ones on Nifty, because they were my first stories online, and you will see.  BUT MOSTLY, I will always support Flag because he started and operates something that no one else does.  It's HIS site.  He has the right to run it as he sees fit.  This is Jack's site.  He has the right to run it as HE sees fit.  It's fine to make suggestions to better a site or suggestions on what you personally would like to see on it, but to complain because the site owner doesn't act on your suggestion is WRONG.  I tell those individuals, if you want a site that has everything exactly the way YOU like it, then create one of your own.

Okay.  Off my soap box.
Posted by: Plagosus
« on: May 11, 2023, 06:07:17 pm »

I strongly suspected the MMSA thread would be locked which is one of the reasons I posted here ;D

Popularity is not everything. It has to be remembered that first and foremost readers come to the archive to read descriptions of spanking. Some will become selective after becoming sated with spankathons and look for something a bit different; others are happy with any story which includes the sort of material which feeds their particular kink.
Posted by: Kat
« on: May 11, 2023, 05:26:13 pm »

First, I'm relieved the MMSA thread is locked before Flag gets involved and starts another round of arbitrary bans. I wouldn't mind at all if he were to ban Bottom, but Plag's presence would be a loss.

Katz, I think WHASS, which I see as your genre, is fairly popular. It's not as popular as it once was, but it's not the same as some of the really niche genres, such as sci-fi and fantasy. Also, even if WHASS is a less popular genre, perhaps you are the exception that proves the rule. An individual author's success isn't necessarily indicative that the genre is popular.

Since we're here and not in the hellscape of the MMSA forum, I'd happily get rid of the shields. There has been too much bitterness over them for them to bring me any satisfaction.

I do not enjoy seeing my stories with nothing at all beside them. I do not enjoy seeing my stories with sad, hollow, four-pointed thingamajigs while someone else is enjoying a pair of solid six-pointers. It does feel like my nose is being rubbed in the fact that readers just aren't that into me. Flag claims the stars help readers. (I think that was his explanation.) 

Well, Foxtrot the readers! I'll keep writing if I have an idea and can scrape together some time to produce something. I expect I'd feel a lot better about the distinctions in stars if I were getting the double solids. Since I'm not, I'd like to shove a couple of those six-pointed stars up Flag's rectum. They'd hurt a lot more than shoving one of the shields there.

As for changing the system, Ivor's post says it all.

Kat

Posted by: Plagosus
« on: May 11, 2023, 05:23:01 pm »

The introduction of six pointed stars has highlighted that some genres are more popular than others. Authors who keep to a less popular genre appear not to be as good as those who choose more popular genres. .

This is the point I don't get. How so? I do not write in a "popular" genre. Not to brag and, I only point it out for example, but I frequently get six pointers and, if not, filled in four pointers. I am not sure that the argument that authors who write in a popular genre only are awarded with six pointers holds true.

You may be right. I am just going by the impression I have.
Posted by: Plagosus
« on: May 11, 2023, 05:21:39 pm »

Whenever authors say they are thinking of giving up a series, or altogether, because they are disappointed with the lack of feedback of one sort or another, I suggest they should not be concerned and just get on and write if they like writing. I said that feedback was a mixed blessing and suggested that no one would be fretting if there were no statistics. DMK came along and asked if I wanted statistics to be abolished. My last post was a reply to that. I said what my ideal was and why. If the question had not been asked I would not have made the post.

Perhaps my problem, if it is one, is that I am not competitive. I do not have either low or high self-esteem. I just do stuff because I want to do it. I feel no need to prove anything. I maintain a reasonable equanimity most of the time. I do though feel for those authors who agonise. I do my best to persuade them they have no need to agonise and suggest they just concentrate on writing what they want or feel they need to write.

All around people are discussing who is the GOAT whether at football, golf, chess or whatever when we should just rejoice in whatever talents people have without comparing them.
Posted by: David M. Katz
« on: May 11, 2023, 04:45:23 pm »

The introduction of six pointed stars has highlighted that some genres are more popular than others. Authors who keep to a less popular genre appear not to be as good as those who choose more popular genres. .

This is the point I don't get. How so? I do not write in a "popular" genre. Not to brag and, I only point it out for example, but I frequently get six pointers and, if not, filled in four pointers. I am not sure that the argument that authors who write in a popular genre only are awarded with six pointers holds true.
Posted by: ivor
« on: May 11, 2023, 06:41:44 am »

Do you enjoy bashing your head against a flagpost, Plag?

It has been very evident for a long time that Flag considers his "wonderful site" to be his and his alone. He seemingly considers it to be perfect and rejects any and all suggestions that are made for potential improvements.

Virtually any changes made are as a result of a whim. Take the 'evermore' saga and the sudden change in qualifying standards for stars as classic examples.
Posted by: Plagosus
« on: May 10, 2023, 06:30:56 pm »

I posted the following on MMSA in this thread: https://newforum.malespank.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9272. Any comments?

I am all for encouragement, but not for feeding egos. My ideal would be to do away with shields and stars and allowing authors to see the number of visitors. I am happy for the feedback facility to continue so long as authors can choose whether or not they have it. If an alternative to stars is wanted then there should be a system where a window pops up and readers are given the opportunity to click on "I liked this story" or even "Good", "Very Good" or "Excellent", with the ability to simply close the window without voting. The results would only be available for the author to see. With that system authors would not be comparing themselves to other authors.

Stars and shields are of little value to readers. It may be a while before a story gets any sort of star rating. Those whose maths is better than mine have confirmed that there are 100 possible permutations of stars and shields. What are readers to make of the overload of information? Most stories have some sort of award so that what the system does is draw attention to stories without any award suggesting they should be avoided. The introduction of six pointed stars has highlighted that some genres are more popular than others. Authors who keep to a less popular genre appear not to be as good as those who choose more popular genres. Readers do not need stars as they get to know who they want to read. Cream rises. Dubious hierarchies are not needed in libraries and so should not have a place in an archive.

Flag made his position abundantly clear when he peremptorily sacked Daniel and me as reviewers and moderators for suggesting the system had a downside. He resolutely refuses to acknowledge that anything he has devised can be flawed.